sigridhr | Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Five

Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Five (The Hobbit)
Chapter IX: Barrels out of Bond
Chapter X: A Warm Welcome

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by forcing you to read Evil!Thranduil Badfic for the rest of eternity.
There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources.
There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.
If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com.

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 8th February 2013 to Friday 15th February 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I can't remember the exact line, but at some point it was said that they had forgotten that there was yet a dragon to deal with: this is telling, that Thorin and company had not counted on the journey being as perilous as the final destination. And, also, forgetful much?

Bilbo is growing an attitude, now. I approve. The dwarves were quick to complain about Bilbo when Gandalf first introduced them, and Bilbo seemed more cowed (or simply too polite) to talk back to them, but now it's like I JUST SAVED YOUR DAMN ASSES, BITCHES. YOU DON'T LIKE IT GO BACK IN THE CELLS AND DO IT YOUR OWN DAMN SELVES. Because really, complaining about the only escape plan is really not on - if someone else had a better way, then, yeah, complain all you want, but nobody else had any ideas.

I also like that Bilbo was sweet enough to return the keys to the guard so he wouldn't get into trouble for losing it, and the escape would be blamed on the Dwarves' own abilities to be cool Houdinis.

AND MY FIRST THOUGHT AT THE ARRIVAL AT THE MEN'S SETTLEMENT WAS MEN LIVE IN CRANNÓGS! TOLKIEN IS MY HERO FOR ADDING IRISH HISTORY IN MIDDLE EARTH (even though we'll happily claim Viking History (and by extension the Vikingish Rohan, too) as ours, too - they were here before the Normans and the English, we like them better :P)

Seriously, though. NOBODY EVER GIVE PONIES TO THORIN OAKENSHIELD FOR ONLY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO THEM.

NOBODY EVER GIVE PONIES TO THORIN OAKENSHIELD FOR ONLY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO THEM.

I just inhaled my tea, damn you!

It's funny, re-reading the book I get the impression that none of them, even Thorin, really have a clear indication of what fighting the dragon actually means. Thorin himself was pretty much a kid when Erebor was lost, and he's the oldest of the group. So, I think they all have this sort of vague idea, but it's really about being noble and taking their home back, and of course they'll prevail, because he's the rightful king. I mean, Thorin never even actually confronts Smaug himself.

Which makes me wonder how the films are going to pan out, with all the emphasis on Thorin and his journey. Because his journey falls pretty flat. I just sort of feel sorry for him - like he lacked any stable parental figures and is burdened with this task of living up to what he thought his father and grandfather were.

Also, I'd originally taken Thorin's description of the fall of Erebor (he says none escaped through the front gate, and all the dwarves inside were killed - then says his father and grandfather turned up with singed beards) to mean that only Thror and Thrain survived, aside from whatever company was outside. But this must have included Dís, who was only 10 at the time (which, given she had her first child at 100, I'm taking to mean baby!Dís), and Frerin. So apparently they were all pottering around outside? Or maybe Thror and Thrain saved more people than I'd thought out the back way.

(I'm also really curious about naming conventions now, too, looking at the family trees. Siblings and Fathers - Sons seem to share similar sounding names - Hence Gróin --> Oin & Gloin --> Gimli, and Grór, Frór & Thrór --> Thrain --> Thorin... but then you have Thorin, Frerin and Dís, and Gróin and Fundin. )

If you inhaled your tea, then my work is done. Bilbo seems to be the only one thinking about the looming dragony business.

Also, I forgot to mention my utter joy that Bilbo caught a nasty cold from all his heroics. Somehow literary heroes never get colds no matter what icy dunkings they suffer. Tolkien again turnr the hero trope on its head.

I dunno, I can see how you could turn Thorin's lack of any encounter with Smaug into a part of his own personal disaster that is the penultimate part of his story arc. He is, after all, the rightful king, it is his duty to kill the dragon, and we all know how he feels about Men after all that time spent smithing at forges built too large...

It's not in the book, but I can see how you'd get there.

(I'm afraid I'm too juvenile to say anything about naming conventions other than... Gróin. Heh.)

I LOVE it when Bilbo tells them they can go back in their cells if they don't like his plan; it's a perfectly valid point, but more than that I like how much he'll stick up for himself now. He is done taking shit from these Dwarves, thank you very much. :D

CRANNOG FANS REPRESENT.

It is interesting how single-minded the dwarves are about the journey and just getting to the Lonely mountain, as opposed to worrying about what they'll do when they get there. And the alternative title of the book is 'There and Back Again' which obviously emphasises the importance of the journey and not the destination. But all the way through, Bilbo does seem more preoccupied with the thought of the dragon than the dwarves do - I don't know if that's because his official role is the burglar, and he was recruited for the last part of the plan (although that's just breaking into Smaug's chamber, not actually killing him.)

Do any of them ever talk rationally about killing Smaug, or just stealing the gold back? Actually, I always found it interesting that they always talked about stealing back their treasure, and Bilbo being a burglar, because if I was Thorin I'd be like EXCUSE YOU THAT DRAGON STOLE IT FROM US, WE DON'T NEED TO STEAL IT BACK, IT'S STILL TECHNICALLY OURS.

I also like that Bilbo was sweet enough to return the keys to the guard so he wouldn't get into trouble for losing it
I loved that part too! It's those little kindnesses that make Bilbo such an endearing character.

Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Five

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