Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Five

[sigridhr]

 Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Five (The Hobbit)
Chapter IX: Barrels out of Bond
Chapter X: A Warm Welcome

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by forcing you to read Evil!Thranduil Badfic for the rest of eternity. 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.  
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 8th February 2013 to Friday 15th February 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

Comments

[gallifaerie.livejournal.com]

"I am like a burglar that can’t get away, but must go on miserably burgling the same house day after day"

I really like this simile - it's really quite domestic and mundane after the excitement and glamour attached to the role of burglar when they first set out on their quest. I really feel for Bilbo stuck wandering about invisibly in Thranduil's tunnels for days on end, not knowing what to do. There is the obvious comparison between Bilbo being the last one out of the goblins' caves, and this situation, where Bilbo saves them all. If that doesn't indicate character progression, I don't know what else does.

Also, I love that Bilbo complains and moans about his predicament, but he still gets stuff done! It's usually a poor character trait for the hero to whinge about things, but Bilbo just does it anyway - and, boy, can I relate to that, because I spend a considerable amount of time griping over things that tick me off.

(When I got to the scene where Bilbo finds where Thorin's been imprisoned, I couldn't help but be reminded of sigridhr's NC-17 version. Steamy.)

The wine of Dorwinion that the butler and chief guard drink brings "deep and pleasant dreams" – once again, there may be some significance of Bilbo being awake when the others aren’t, as he takes advantage of their drunken stupor to execute his plan.

"Come along back to your nice cells and I will lock you all in again, and you can sit there comfortably and think of a better plan"

I will never get tired of sassy-and-sarcastic!Bilbo.

He was in the dark tunnel floating in icy water, all alone – for you cannot count friends that are all packed up in barrels.

I can't help but see this as a proverb. I feel like quoting it solemnly at anyone who asks me for advice.

Being a relative Tolkien newbie, chapter 10 made me wonder as to the nature of the relationship between the men and the dwarves? Is it usually amicable like this, or have they been enemies in the past too?

Also, I am not impressed with the Master of Lake-town - he seems pretty ineffective and defunct, especially compared to Thranduil.

[j_quadrifrons]

I find it hilarious that Tolkien had essentially created this entire universe to house his Elves, and yet, in this book, they're all utter bastards. I mean, it's great, but it is a little odd (and I think indicates that the Professor did not necessarily always take himself as seriously as one might think).

Olsen points out that the - he calls it a misunderstanding, I'd call it an interpersonal clusterfuck - that leads to all the Dwarves being imprisoned prefigures the disaster at the Mountain, when Bard and Thranduil come to sue for part of the hoard. They are both fundamentally misunderstandings, but they're based in a certain natural (and not unwarranted) suspicion that has a tendency to make things worse rather than better.

Olsen also calls Bilbo a "subsistence burglar," which I find unbelievably endearing. <3

Laketown is apparently based on archaeological evidence which, at the time Tolkien was writing, was taken to indicate that ancient German and Norse towns were sometimes built on lakes. Now we tend to assume they were built on shores. But I do have to point out crannogs, which are Irish dwellings that were built, not on top of lakes, but in them - man-made islands, kind of, just big enough for a household. (Not directly relevant, but crannogs are fucking awesome, so.)

Bilbo's increasing bitchiness is a source of constant joy to me.

A point which is not directly brought up in the book but which is striking on reflection: Smaug's attack is within the personal experience of some of these Dwarves, while many of the Men of Lake-town don't actually believe Smaug exists, he comes out so infrequently.

I've got a lot of notes about the role of luck in the story which I'd be willing type up if anybody wants to talk about it, but nothing particularly interesting to say at the moment.

[starliings.livejournal.com]

I love that Bilbo is finally getting some recognition in this chapter. This quote: 'Bilbo had never imagined that any water that was not the sea could look so big' just reminds us how far he has come and makes me want to hug Bilbo for a very long time.

'Thorin looked and walked as if his kingdom was already regained and Smaug chopped up into little pieces'. BATTLE OF THE FIVE ARMIES FEELS.

[halberdier]

I can't remember the exact line, but at some point it was said that they had forgotten that there was yet a dragon to deal with: this is telling, that Thorin and company had not counted on the journey being as perilous as the final destination. And, also, forgetful much?

Bilbo is growing an attitude, now. I approve. The dwarves were quick to complain about Bilbo when Gandalf first introduced them, and Bilbo seemed more cowed (or simply too polite) to talk back to them, but now it's like I JUST SAVED YOUR DAMN ASSES, BITCHES. YOU DON'T LIKE IT GO BACK IN THE CELLS AND DO IT YOUR OWN DAMN SELVES. Because really, complaining about the only escape plan is really not on - if someone else had a better way, then, yeah, complain all you want, but nobody else had any ideas.

I also like that Bilbo was sweet enough to return the keys to the guard so he wouldn't get into trouble for losing it, and the escape would be blamed on the Dwarves' own abilities to be cool Houdinis.

AND MY FIRST THOUGHT AT THE ARRIVAL AT THE MEN'S SETTLEMENT WAS MEN LIVE IN CRANNÓGS! TOLKIEN IS MY HERO FOR ADDING IRISH HISTORY IN MIDDLE EARTH (even though we'll happily claim Viking History (and by extension the Vikingish Rohan, too) as ours, too - they were here before the Normans and the English, we like them better :P)

Seriously, though. NOBODY EVER GIVE PONIES TO THORIN OAKENSHIELD FOR ONLY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO THEM.

[hibari-sensei.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the dwarvish language has words for non-immediate family members or even brother and sister. "Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror" and "the sons of my father's daughter" are so tedious. Then again, they could just like showing off their patrilineages.

[j_quadrifrons]

On luck:

Olson goes on for quite a bit about luck at this point in his book, and I took some very vague notes that I cannot entirely decipher any more, so I'm not sure how much of this is him and how much of it is me.

It seems to me that there are two kinds of luck in The Hobbit. First off there's luck that creates an opportunity, like the lucky coincidences of, say, the butler being drunk at just the right time, or Bilbo managing to find the Dwarves in the forest after they've been taken by the spiders. These are opportunities that have to be seized: if Bilbo hadn't come up with the barrel plan, or if he hadn't been willing to attack the spiders, nothing would have come of it. (Interestingly enough, some of this was actually added in later - Tolkien originally had Bilbo tracking the Dwarves in Mirkwood, only to change it in later drafts to a lucky guess that sent him in the right direction. What this means I'm not sure, but it is interesting.)

The second kind of luck is the kind that turns disaster into good fortune - like when they stumble off the path in Mirkwood only to find out later that the end of the path they were on would only have gotten them killed. I'm even less sure of what this means than the first kind of luck. I keep wanting to put some kind of "dark cloud/silver lining" interpretation on it and then that sounds too saccharine. I am reminded, though, of what Gandalf says in the end - "You don't really suppose, do you, that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck, just for your sole benefit?" This almost implies a higher power putting a hand in, whether that higher power is Gandalf or someone else, but I hesitate to read too much into that one either. So.

(And then, of course, there's the thrush. He's a little bit of both kinds of luck at once, but I think he's largely a flying plot device. I'm willing to entertain arguments to the contrary, though.)