Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Two

[sigridhr]

 Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Two (The Hobbit)
Chapter III: A Short Rest
Chapter IV: Over Hill and Under Hill

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by a blind date with Gollum at the Mordor Fried Warg Emporium. I highly recommend the Mildewed Troll Innards (a deep, earthy dish, with plenty of flavour), and Boiled Nazgul Backside (light and airy, what it lacks in substance it makes up for in its sharp, stabbing taste that will stay with you long after you've left). 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.  
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 18th January 2013 to Friday 25th January 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

Comments

[oliphaunts]

exactly! especially with the elves in Middle-Earth. I super disagree with Thranduil's rainment in the movies, actually. It just seems so ... un-Silvan, and extremely impractical for the purposes of guerilla warfare in a wood called MIRKWOOD. though they did kind of mess up Tolkien's timelines in the movies for the purpose of shoehorning a bigger role for Radagast in, (I did actually enjoy Radagast and the RABBITS OF RHOSGOBEL a lot), so it's referred to as Eryn Lasgalen when that is only a name taken on post-Galadriel throwing down Dol Guldur. If I remember correctly.

The thing is, though, that if the costume department managed to come up with such diverse and wonderful costumes for the dwarves, it's really more a matter of PJ's (and Pippa Boyens, and Fran Walsh's) directorial decision to over-simplify the history of ME. Which is also why I'll never believe it when people say that they know and love Tolkien's oeuvre. I mean, in that Empire interview only Richard Armitage (bless him) managed to come up with trivia, and Armitage came out with the Nauglamir. He referred to that with its earlier name -- Nauglafring, which just DELIGHTS ME UTTERLY BECAUSE HE'S MUCH A GEEK ABOUT TOLKIEN AS WE ARE. o/////

Er, sorry for going off on a tangent. On the same note, though, what did you think of the decision to keep Azog alive in the movie? I sort of understand it in a Hollywood-logic kind of way, that they wanted to imbue Thorin with even more 'epic' a personal narrative, by giving him another, more immediate protagonist in the movie. But I also hate it, because it reduces the complexity of the dwarves' stories to All About Thorin And His Dwarvely Angst.

My copy of UT is not even on the same continent as me right now, so I'll take your word for it! That does make Celeborn seem like a bit of a petty dick, lol. I know their kindred sacked your first home way back in the First Age, but seriously man.

[sigridhr]

Yeah, I have to say I'm a bit annoyed with them changing the timeline so that Mirkwood was only recently infested with a crotchety old evil Maia. There is a big difference between Thranduil dicking around and getting drunk in the Greenwood for a couple hundred years, and Thanduil fighting spiders on his doorstep for that same amount of time.

I do understand the decision to simplify, though. The chief complaint I've heard against Tolkien is that there's just too much density (WHICH IS RIDICULOUS. HE MADE DRAWINGS OF THE CARPET PATTERNS IN NUMENOR. NO AMOUNT OF DETAIL IS TOO MUCH), and you can tell the essence of the story without all of the interesting history – it's just not as rich. I do firmly believe that Weta workshop are geeks of the best and highest order, though, with the amount of beautiful work they put in – and I'd agree that I would've liked to see more geeky trivia from PJ & co.

Everytime Richard Armitage gets geeky I pretty much die. I can think of no bigger turn on, tbh, than a man knowing his Silmarillion. :P

My biggest complaint with the film was Azog, actually. I just felt like it was a bit unnecessary – we already have the storyline of the actual Hobbit, and then the White Council storyline (which presumably will include Gandalf ousting Sauron from Dol Goldur - and possibly finding Thráin, because the timelines have been wonkified like whoa). I thought that between the two there was plenty to go on, and the Azog storyline just bogged everything down. The thing about Thorin's angst-o-rama is that there was already loads to go on. He already was on a personal mission to reclaim Erebor if you wanted to talk about motivation (and I loved the expanded emphasis on his motives in the film versus the more simplified 'we want our gold back' motive Bilbo records), and, if they do include the finding of Thráin, there's ample opportunity to throw in a second bundle of angst. PLUS you have him coming into contact with Thranduil who he now also has a Personal Vendetta™ with, so it's all just a bit too much. I get that they wanted a named protagonist for the climax of the film, I suppose, but I wonder if it wouldn't have worked better to split it in two as they'd originally planned, and cut the Azog line altogether. After all, there was Bolg in the book, who could have fulfilled some of the same role, only with more canon.

That said, Bilbo throwing himself at the orc to save Thorin, and then the hug did funny things to my heart, so... :P

I think the Galadhrim are just really xenophobic and insular (as far as elves go). They have a pretty bad rep too – the Rohirrim are all wary of the woods too, aren't they? 'Course the Elven kingdoms of the first age were pretty closed off too – Gondolin being the obvious example of this being taken to extremes. I suspect if a similar situation were to have occurred near Gondolin, Turgon might not have come out to lend aid either.

[j_quadrifrons]

...I want a Numenorian carpet.