Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week One

[sigridhr]

 *smashes a bottle of champagne over the post* And we're off!

Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week One (The Hobbit)
Chapter I: An Unexpected Party
Chapter II: Roast Mutton

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by a barefoot gauntlet walk across a set of lego pieces. 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too nerdy. Or too excited. 
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 11th January 2013 to Friday 18th January 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

(I'm cheating a bit, as it's not quite the 11th here yet, but I want to get this up before I go to work tomorrow, and 6am posting is just asking for disaster). Have at it, guys! :) 

Comments

[sigridhr]

I'd have to re-read some of the stuff in, I think, the Unfinished Tales on the treachery of Saruman. No one knew until LotR that Saruman was a traitor, however.

From what I recall (somebody correct me if I'm getting this wrong), Saruman spent a lot of time brushing aside people's concerns, insisting the Ring had flown from the Anduin into the sea and would never be recovered, and so on. I think this didn't sit quite right with some (Gandalf? I'm not sure), in the sort of I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it sense, but I think Gandalf also said that they acknowledged Saruman as an expert on these matters because it was his specialist area of study, so to speak.

But Saruman was meant to be the head of the order of the Istari (wizards), and that was presumably assigned by whoever sent them to Middle-Earth in the first place, and for whatever purpose they were sent (presumably to manage Sauron).

[anki_koda]

I am so going to get that book! This week I'll walk to college so I can buy it :)

Still, I know somewhere they said Galadriel actually want for Gandalf to be at the head of matters but in the end they decided Saruman would be better for that. Or maybe is my wishful thinking regarding Gandalf/Galadriel relationship.

[sigridhr]

Hmm... That's interesting. Galadriel certainly had a fair bit of foresight thanks to her Dishpan of Ominous Seeing.

Haha! I'm really curious about the Elrond/Galadriel (platonic, obviously) relationship. She's his mother in law, so I want to know what she thinks of him.

[anki_koda]

She must have seen something in Elrond to trust him her beloved daughter. But, yes, I am curious as well over all after what happen to her daughter. Also, I wouldn't mind knowing what kind of relatinship she has with Elrohir and Elladan.

[sigridhr]

Well, I'm sure if Celebrían had wanted it she'd've got her way no matter what. :P They had a son, too, though, didn't they? Amroth? Who was lost... something to do with boats, I can't remember.

And then Arwen doesn't sail west, and they lose her forever. And Elladan and Elrohir's fates are never confirmed, so it's possible they never sailed either.

Excuse me while I nurse my heartbreak in the corner.

[anki_koda]

That's the best family ever. I know Elrond must have suffered but he knows and understands Arwen would only be happy with Aragorn.

[sigridhr]

Elrond has such a laundry list of suffering, it's not even funny.

His uncles are left in the forest to die. His father turns into a star, his mother turns into a bird. He's raised by Maedhros and Maglor, who, respectively, toss themselves into a chasm and go wandering on a beach forever. He makes friends with Gil-Galad.

Gil-Galad dies.
His brother choses to become human.
His brother dies.

He gets married, has three kids, one of them also choses to die.
And his wife gets tortured and (possibly) raped by orcs and sails west.
His sons may or may not also chose to die.

It's a miracle Elrond didn't chose to die.

[anki_koda]

I guess that's what makes him so wise. I mean, with all the suffering you have three choices going mad, die or try and learn and help others. It is quite interesting actually how Elrond was always there trying to help or do something about it.

[sigridhr]

I sort of love everyone in these books, but I love Elrond more. So. Much. Love.

I like how he's described as 'kind as summer', even after all that. You're right – he took the shit life flung at him and made everything better for the people around him. And he's the most welcoming of all the elves we see – he'll pretty much let anyone stay over, and he fosters generations of Dúnedain kids.

[anki_koda]

I have this image of kid!Aragorn watching the Dwarves and Bilbo arrived and suddenly splash! they are covered in water, the Elves laugh and Elrond is just glaring at that spot when he knows Sragorn is hidding with the twins.

I just..I don't know... :) It makes me happy think about it

[anki_koda]

You know? I also find it interesting how much he appreciates Bilbo. I mean, Bilbo seems to be free to do as he like in his house and Elrond seems please by these.

[sigridhr]

Well, Bilbo did prove himself quite the BAMF. I'd show some respect to anyone who laughed at a live dragon and lived to talk about it. :P

[anki_koda]

Can you imagine him arriving to the land of the Valinor and looking around all 'oh, this is pretty'. and going on like totally normal and Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf smiling behind him.

[dragonthalyne]

I keep reading on the internet that Galadriel wanted Gandalf to be head of the White Council too, but that Gandalf declined, and Saruman wanted the position because he was proud and such. Did Galadriel and Elrond know that Cirdan the third Elven ring to Gandalf? (Narya? I think?)

Speaking of the Elvish rings, I'm really interested in knowing what their powers were. I sort of wonder if Elrond thought that it his duty to stay around during the crazy things that happened at the end of the Third Age because he was a ringbearer of sorts too.

[anki_koda]

I've been wondering the same thing! What kind of powers do the rings have? I mean for Galadriel to be capable of protecting Lothlorien, for Elrond to perhaps keep Imladris and what about the Dwarven Rings? If I remember correctly Thrór had one of the seven and then gave it to Thráin that lost it to Sauron. But, what it really mean for them to posses the ring. Power? Better at crafting things? Protection?

[sigridhr]

Nenya helped keep Lothlórien unchanged (and timeless). I can't find the quote right now, so I can't give you Tolkien's precise wording, but he does say of the rings that they helped preserve and amplify things that the bearer considered important. So, for the Dwarves, this usually meant that the possession of a ring enabled them to create wealth and accumulate it, and build great halls and whatnot.

For Galadriel and Elrond, it was the preservation of their realms, providing safety, security and general 'goodness', I suppose.

And I think Elrond stuck around to see Elros' kin back on the throne as well. He didn't foster the Dúnedain for naught.