Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Eight

[sigridhr]

Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Seven (The Hobbit)
Chapter XVI: The Gathering of Clouds
Chapter XIV: A Thief in the Night

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by forcing you to mediate at Christmas dinner in the house of Finwë. 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.  
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 1st March 2013 to Friday 8th March 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

Comments

[sigridhr]

It's not really an excuse, but I do think that Roac's speech to Thorin sort of tips the scales in regards to how Thorin responds. I'd forgotten how grim it is - he describes it as a host of elves with carrion birds circling over head spoiling for a fight. And he sets the stage for Thorin's dealings with Bard by saying the Laketown men blame them for everything - and the "[they] think to find amends from your treasure, whether you are alive or dead" seems fairly threatening given there's just fourteen of them and they're facing a literal army (which Roac ever-so-helpfully points out). I think this strongly tempers the advice that he deal with Bard.

Practical!Bilbo is always my favourite, though, bless him.

I'm always a bit divided here, because, on the one hand, Thorin's pretty much a raging douchenozzle. But, I sort of understand his statement that he will give out the treasure, just not under duress. Given the fact that they're incredibly outnumbered, and, while some of the hoard was from Dale, the bulk of it really was Thror's, I understand him wanting to keep some measure of control over how it's distributed, and as soon as he opens the front door he loses any footing he had. On the other hand, greed is clearly at play in a big way, but it's a pretty understandable greed imho.

Course Bard is being super dooper reasonable here so it highlights all of Thorin's douchenozzle attributes.

Bilbo's I-am-completely-and-utterly-fed-up-with-all-these-dwarven-idiots speech is my absolute favourite. He's just so sassy and clearly thinks everyone's a nitwit and why did he ever leave the Shire? It just cracks me up.

His reaction on handing over the Arkenstone is interesting too - especially given Gallifaerie's point about parallels between the ring and the stone.

GANDALF! :D:D

Can I also just express me profound appreciation for the fact that the book does not end with the death of Smaug? Because I, when I first read it, like Bilbo, expected it to be over - but the fact that Tolkien deals with the aftermath is really wonderful to me.

[starliings.livejournal.com]

'Can I also just express me profound appreciation for the fact that the book does not end with the death of Smaug? Because I, when I first read it, like Bilbo, expected it to be over - but the fact that Tolkien deals with the aftermath is really wonderful to me.'

I completely agree with this. It takes what could just be a adventure story where everything ends nicely and they beat the dragon, yay The End, but it's so awesome that Tolkien actually deals with the ~real life~ aspect of the ending, like, insert inspirational quote here about the dragon not being the real villain but rather HUMAN NATURE. Or dwarvish nature I guess. Whatevs.

'There was the sound, too of elven-harps and of sweet music; and as it echoed up towards them it seemed that the chill of the air was warmed, and they caught faintly the fragrance of woodland flowers blossoming in spring.'

I love the imagery here, it's like, even though Smaug is defeated, there's still this festering darkness in the mountain, mainly due to greed and pride and revenge. It kinda reminds me of Dementors, how they make all the flowers and plants curl up and die when they go by.

Also it mentions that most of the dwarves seemed to share Thorin's mind, except for Fili and Kili (and Bombur). Ugh this is depressing, because I can't help thinking that if Fili and Kili had survived the battle, they might have carried the line of Durin into a new age of friendship with men and elves and I JUST. WHY MUST EVERYONE I LOVE DIE.

[gallifaerie.livejournal.com]

Like sigridhr and starliings said, it makes so much a better book that the big climax of DRAGON isn’t actually the climax of the book at all.
Roac basically sums it up when he says "the treasure is likely to be your death, though the dragon is no more."

Because the aim of the quest, reclaiming the gold, is the dangerous part, not the quest itself, so the dragon isn’t really their biggest challenge. Perhaps that’s why the logistics of them killing Smaug was never really deliberated over much, because it’s not as important a problem for them to face as is their pride, greed and need for revenge. Because those things just end up consuming them, Thorin especially, until he’s completely unwilling to see any fault on his own part, or just show basic charity and kindness to people who are suffering. Dwarvish priorities are all wrong. (Although I do agree with what sigridhr said about him being willing to share some of the treasure to help the men of Laketown when they’re not threatening him.)

Something that does redeem Thorin for me a bit is this:

'Yet he had an eye for many another wonderful thing that was lying there, about which were wound old memories of the labours and the sorrows of his race.'

Sometimes I forget that it’s not just about the gold for Thorin – there is a definitely a huge emotional aspect to him wanting to keep all of the treasure, and that just compounds his greed I suppose.

'He would have given most of his share in the profits for the peaceful winding up of these affairs.'

Once again, Bilbo is exactly what they need - if only Thorin and the dwarves had shared this perspective, even slightly, they might all have lived happily ever after.

'Then Thorin seized a bow of horn and shot an arrow at the speaker. It smote into his shield, and stood there, quivering.'

However much of an unreasonable jerk he was being, that is BADASS. Man, I hope they keep that in the movie.