Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Three

[sigridhr]

  Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Three (The Hobbit)
Chapter V: Riddles in the Dark
Chapter VI: Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by purchasing $10,000 worth of shares in Mordor Inc. in your name. 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.  
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 18th January 2013 to Friday 25th January 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

Comments

[j_quadrifrons]

Oh! Well then. :D Yeah, Gollum fitting in so well with LotR is kind of artificial; he was specifically edited to fit. (Apparently Tolkien tried to go through and edit the whole book to make it work better, and eventually his friends sat him down and said, "It's just not The Hobbit any more," and he stopped.)

The movies lean heavily on Smeagol here, but the book definitely doesn't. (Corey points out that while Gollum argues with himself, it isn't an argument between good and bad halves, it's an argument between the half that thinks he'll be able to get the ring back and the half that thinks it's hopeless.) Overall it's much more ambiguous in the books than it ever is in the movies; Gollum and Smeagol are both complex people, and neither of them are unaffected by the Ring.

The thing that breaks my heart now, that I don't think I noticed the first time through, is that Gandalf sent three eagles to Mount Doom.

[sigridhr]

Hahaha, re-editing things to death seemed to be Tolkien's favourite pastime.

I don't really consider Smeagol a clear-cut good half either though - (but I will agree that it's not a Smeagol/Gollum argument). After all Deagol's murder was committed by Smeagol, I think. They're both affected by the Ring, and both self-serving and calculating in their own ways.

The thing that breaks my heart now, that I don't think I noticed the first time through, is that Gandalf sent three eagles to Mount Doom.
I'm not crying, I've just been cutting onions. I'm making a lasagna for one.

[j_quadrifrons]

You are quite right that Smeagol isn't Gollum's "good half" - he's just the more, hmm. Civilized half. Smeagol understands things like relationships between people, and doing things even if you don't want to do them. Smeagol would have had an easier time with Bilbo's riddles, I think, because the things they describe are not so far from him as they are from Gollum. That doesn't make him good, just more understandable.

[gallifaerie.livejournal.com]

I'm not crying, I've just been cutting onions. I'm making a lasagna for one.
OMG sorry but LET ME LOVE YOU with your Flight of the Conchords references!

[sigridhr]

FotC references are always appropriate.