Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Three

[sigridhr]

  Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Three (The Hobbit)
Chapter V: Riddles in the Dark
Chapter VI: Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by purchasing $10,000 worth of shares in Mordor Inc. in your name. 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.  
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 18th January 2013 to Friday 25th January 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

Comments

[sigridhr]

I wonder as well if the Ring doesn't have something to do with Bilbo's transformation into an adventurer. For the first time he's got all the tools he'll need - Sting and the Ring – and something about the Ring keeps him from telling the Dwarves (a desire to impress?), which in turn earns him their approbation and trust for the first time.

That point on matches is definitely interesting. I second the desire to read that essay.

Also, love the catch of Gollum's despair. He's almost wraith-like in that he's given up, but he can't let go while he's bound to the Ring and the Ring drives him forwards.

BALIN. I LIVE A BALIN APPRECIATION LIFE. I get really upset in Moria.

[j_quadrifrons]

I'm reluctant to attribute Bilbo's adventurousness to the Ring, it seems too positive a change overall. (I am willing to blame the Ring for his decision to not tell the Dwarves about it.) I think it's simpler than that: Bilbo finally got the chance to do something he was good at on this adventure. Yes, he's in a black cave in the bottom of a mountain; yes, he's holding a Gondolin blade and actually kind of wishing there were orcs around so he could see something; yes, he's talking to a terrifying creature that wants to eat him. But he's playing the riddle game. Riddles, he knows. (Sudden mental image of wee Bilbo playing the riddle game with Old Took, awwwww.) And having proven to himself that he can do one thing, he can go on to do others.

I am now curious about Gollum and despair in LotR. Because he does eventually get over it and go hunting the Ring - or do Sauron's minions haul him out from under the mountains? I can't remember, but I think he did take the initiative first.

If you don't live a Balin appreciation life, you're doing it wrong.

(Learned from the appendices: Dwalin lives to 300+ years old. Which means he did not go to Moria with his brother, which means he probably got the news from Gimli after the War of the Ring. Added to the epic list of fanfictions I will probably never write.)

[sigridhr]

Hmm... fair enough. :P

Gandalf says that Gollum himself set out, and then was lured or captured and taken to Barad-dûr. It's explicitly desire for the Ring that sends him out - despite his aversion to light and his fear. It's interesting how desperate he becomes - he's afraid of the goblins getting it in the Hobbit, but by LotR he's referring to the orcs of Mordor as his 'friends', who will help him get his revenge, and they certainly do help him escape Mirkwood. I wonder if you can't still attribute some of these actions to the Ring, in a sense, in the same way Bilbo's lying about it can be put down to it.

Aaaand that's now on the list of fanfics I would desperately like to read. :P

[(Anonymous)]

Having finished Corey, I can now edit my earlier statement to say that this is Bilbo's first turning point in the adventure - this is the point where he starts taking being a "professional adventurer" more seriously. (He will live up to it properly later, when he attacks the spiders.)

Hmm. Interesting that the thing that overcomes Gollum's despair is his desire for the Ring. I think this is his proto-hobbit nature showing through, as hobbits are really the only creatures who react to the Ring in anything like that way. Still, one can't imagine that the Ring wants to go back to Gollum - it'd just end up stuck down in a cave again, which is clearly useless to it. (You're right, I can't remember how much of the Ring having its own personality is a Jackson invention.)

Well, thanks to finding a similar prompt on the kinkmeme, there's a chance I might actually write it now. Hmph. *reshuffles to-write list*

[j_quadrifrons]

Whoops, that was me.

[sigridhr]

The naming of Sting is definitely a turning point, yes. It's Bilbo, then, who explicitly takes charge there.

Well, did anyone other than Gollum bear the Ring for as long, though? I wonder what would have become of Isildur if he'd held on to it as long. I've always wondered about Gollum's aging – after Bilbo gives up the ring he ages rapidly, but Gollum lives a good, what, eighty or so years on? How come he didn't die of old age – or was something about the RIng's continued existence continuing to prolong his life even after he gave it up?

WOOOT. I hope you do.

[j_quadrifrons]

Excellent point; Gollum had the ring longer than anyone except Sauron and it's hard to tell what it did to him, since we never know him when it wasn't affecting him. I think part of it might be that he wanted the ring *back* - when Bilbo gave it up, he really truly gave it up.