Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Three

[sigridhr]

  Epic Tolkien Bookclub: Week Three (The Hobbit)
Chapter V: Riddles in the Dark
Chapter VI: Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire

Rules

I very much doubt we'll require much in the way of formal rules, but just for the sake of formality and clarity:

• Discussion is welcome and encouraged, as is disagreement. Name-calling and personal attacks will be punished by purchasing $10,000 worth of shares in Mordor Inc. in your name. 
  
• There is no spoiler policy in place. Although we're reading the Hobbit, please feel free to bring in things from other Tolkien works, any of the films, the History of Middle Earth, the Letters of JRR Tolkien, and, if you should like, other literary sources. 
• There is no such thing as too much geekery. Or taking the text too seriously.  
• If you have any concerns at any point, I'm the closest thing this gong show has to a mod, so feel free to get in touch. I can be reached either by PM through this site, or directly by email at sigridhr.lokidottir@gmail.com. 

Discussion on this post will officially run from Friday 18th January 2013 to Friday 25th January 2013. However, the post will remain open after that point, so you're more than welcome to continue discussions on. 

Comments

[meinterrupted]

This is pretty horrible, too, if it's the only thing Gollum's ever cared for. No friends or family, or anything before it. Smeagol was clearly a pretty ill-adjusted individual even before the Ring came along.

I rather think that this is telling that the Ring is the only thing that Gollum really cared for. I think that seeing the Ring, and having it dig its claws into Smeagol's mind is something of a defining moment, splitting Gollum and Smeagol apart. Or even more creepily, it's the Ring's influence in that he can't remember caring about anything, that the Ring has so infected his mind that everything else pales in comparison to this obsession. Because it really isn't love, any more than an abusive partner loves the object of his love/rage: it's obsession.

I wonder about the clothes thing too, tho I don't see why he can't have pockets in his loincloth. :P He would definitely have had to pilfer the clothes from the goblins, if he's been down there several hundred years (it was ~500, yes?). But I think that maybe that's another symptom of how thoroughly the Ring has gotten to him; there's no real reason for him to have pockets other than to carry it around.

Mmmm, I just like thinking about the amount of agency the Ring has. I mean, it obviously has a will of its own, and an endgame. Is it like a Horcrux, you think, where it's a part of Sauron's soul and its trying to reunite with him? But it also has some sort of forethought, in putting itself in Bilbo's hands. I mean, I'm sure it was rather aiming for a goblin, knowing what it does about their habits; a Ring-infected goblin would probably start to raise an army and march on *somewhere* pretty quickly, and gain Sauron's attention that way.

I am thinking thinky thoughts!

Still, I just love how *easy* this book is to read. It just trucks along!

[sigridhr]

Mmm... I hadn't taken the line to mean Gollum exclusively, but I suppose that makes sense. Gollum owes his existence to the Ring, after all.

I hadn't imagined pocketed loincloths... I suppose you could but... However, he clearly does carry things around, and notably not the Ring. He couldn't bear to carry it around anymore (interestingly), so he kept it on the island he lived on for safekeeping. So clearly he keeps pockets for other purposes (namely batswings, shells and a knife, apparently).

I definitely agree about the Ring having agency, though. Gandalf says as much too, doesn't he? Or is that exclusive to the films? (I NEED A BIGGER MEMORY, DAMMIT). But the Ring tries pretty hard here too to get away - Bilbo's visible when he's seen by the Goblins at the gate because the Ring has slipped off his finger. So, yeah, it's a tricky bugger. :P

[starliings.livejournal.com]

This is really interesting, I was wondering about the ring being a kind of sentient thing as I was reading this chapter. I'm a relative Tolkien newbie, but I know that the ring basically almost takes people over, and makes them overpowered by greed and everything, and that Bilbo's pity for Gollum was possibly one of the things which stopped him being so affected by it.
This bit:
'Whether it was an accident, or a last trick of the ring before it took a new master, it was not on his finger'
kinda made me think that this was almost the ring's punishment for Bilbo's act of pity, for him not letting himself be made completely evil by it. Also it says he felt a 'pang of fear and loss' on realising he wasn't wearing it, so the ring already has some power of him, even with his compassion, which usually does not compute with normal ring-bearer actions.

The whole ring thing is just gets more creepy and interesting the more you think about it!

[gallifaerie.livejournal.com]

I did wonder about Gollum not carrying the ring around with him - it says that he started by wearing it, until it tired him, then he carried it around in a pouch, and eventually he had to leave it on his island. But at the same time he can't bear to be parted from it. Those are quite contradictory things to be feeling/doing, so I wonder how the ring makes you feel when you wear it. Obviously, it has a possessive effect over the wearer, making them covet and obsess over it, but it's also so draining that they can't be around it for most of the time. It does seem like that would be enough to drive anyone insane.

[j_quadrifrons]

I actually really like that aspect - that he has to keep it away from himself but he can't bear to be parted with it. It reminds me of people failing to recover from addiction, or people in really destructive relationships. It feels true, in other words, although horribly tragic.

[gallifaerie.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's a great comparison actually! You know it's bad for you, but you can't stay away from it. And Gollum seemed to experience "withdrawal symptoms" when he was parted from the ring (although Bilbo didn't, but I suppose he did have it for like a tenth of the time Gollum did, so it was bound to have less of an effect).